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Another country's intelligence services. it's not about criminal charges. so i don't know if it means double trouble that we're going to find out about anytime soon, but it certainly does seem like there is something going on here, that people around the president are still the focus of what investigators are looking at. and those can sometimes yield criminal charges. you know, this stuff has become very hard to predict. i think shimon can tell us that. >> mm-hmm. >> but it remains a concern, and that's pretty clear. >> yeah. asha, cunningham says that unlike a final criminal report, a mueller...

He has lied. he promised to cooperate. he hasn't. he has lied to prosecutors. they've said that. and so he's going to be a very difficult witness before the house because he is not where michael cohen was of being repentant and trying to get right with the law and trying to make clear -- let the american people know what happened. he's still on the lying campaign. and i think -- so i think that's going to make it very difficult for him to be very useful to the congress. >> jill wine-banks, nelson cunningham, ron klain, mieke eoyang, thank you very much for starting us off tonight. this is exac...

Them. but i agree with what everybody has said. the sentencing guidelines called for much more. and if we're going to have an equitable system we need to use the sentencing guidelines so that everybody feels that they are standing before a blind justice and have the same chance as anyone else for a fair trial and a fair sentencing. >> and nelson, for the judge to talk about, you know, he was charged with 18 counts, he was convicted on 10, and using that in his calculation of what was in front of him, paula duncan, who's the juror who's going to join us, did speak publicly after the conviction....

Criminals but also just shows the lack of equity in our justice system, that something that we really needth to focus is to getal the sentencing righ. the guidelines are only advisory. so the judge is quite free to ignore them. and he clearly did. but he also interfered in the trial. let's noted forget all of the comments he made attack the prosecution during this trial. he clearly affected the outcome of the trial,ar and now he's ha the last word in terms of sentencing, saying i'm not t gog to pay any attention to how serious you think this was, prosecutors. that's not what i think. >> well, ...

And they were a cumulative set of crimes for which he was eligible rightly so for quite a long sentence. i think the leniency is something that will hurt in terms of deterrence of future criminals but also just shows the lack of equity in our justice system, that something that we really need to focus on is to get the sentencing right. the guidelines are only advisory. so the judge is quite free to ignore them. and he clearly did. but he also interfered in the trial. let's not forget all of the comments he made attack the prosecution during this trial. he clearly affected the outcome of the tr...