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>> right. >> or ideological label. i wrote a whole book about this. i deliberately didn't use the words liberal and conservative for just that reason. and i tried not to use party labels wherever i could. and this is one of them. if not the most fundamental one which is about the relationship of the individual to the state with a capital "s" in america. >> particularly in the context of secrecy and surveillance. michael, is that how you understand it. >> exactly so. i think that's exactly right. i do have to disagree with congressman naddler who said the so-called libertarians. there were some...

I deliberately didn't use the words liberal and conservative for just that reason. and i tried not to use party labels wherever i could. and this is one of them. if not the most fundamental one which is about the relationship of the individual to the state with a capital "s" in america. >> particularly in the context of secrecy and surveillance. michael, is that how you understand it. >> exactly so. i think that's exactly right. i do have to disagree with congressman naddler who said the so-called libertarians. there were some actual very real libertarians. you saw some of them including matt ...

>> or ideological label. i wrote a whole book about this. i deliberately didn't use the words liberal and conservative for just that reason. and i tried not to use party labels wherever i could. and this is one of them. if not the most fundamental one which is about the relationship of the individual to the state with a capital "s" in america. >> particularly in the context of secrecy and surveillance. michael, is that how you understand it? >> exactly so. >> i think that's exactly right. i do have to disagree with congressman naddler who said the so-called libertarians. there were some actual...