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>> and that -- it strikes me that that is one prism to understand sort of everything in the kind of news arc today, right? from the stories we're writing about what's happening on the border to what happened with roseanne barr that the idea that if you just sort of think about what your enemies will hate -- like they'll hate the fact you separate children -- that you could end up in some morally dark places. >> well, you know, so much of the trump administration is performance theater and i think stephen miller and donald trump have this thing in common where this is the sense of how can i dis...

In his critics as a political win. >> and that -- it strikes me that that is one prism to understand sort of everything in the kind of news arc today, right? from the stories we're writing about what's happening on the border to what happened with roseanne barr that the idea that if you just sort of think about what your enemies will hate -- like they'll hate the fact you separate children -- that you could end up in some morally dark places. >> well, you know, so much of the trump administration is performance theater and i think stephen miller and donald trump have this thing in common where...