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About making judgments in the protection of our national interests against such leaders. either way, whether there's mental illness or just extreme personality defaults or defects. >> we have to sneak in a break. i want to quickly tie this up with you, nick. there is, at the beginning of this me, too, movement, there was the same sort of, well, i don't want to say anything. i don't want to accuse him of anything. he's been good to me. he's someone revered in the community. and the conversation, the tone and tenor and the caution was almost exactly the same as it is around this question of ment...

Evan mcmullin, my friday regular, rev al sharpton, host of "politics nation" and president of the national action network. nick confosore, for "the new york times," and kim atkins for the boston herald. both of them msnbc contributors. happy new year. what a first week. and i have to say, i'm going to sell you out. you were watching that. you said everybody's heard that. >> not only that. people have reported about his need for gratification constantly. it's been a hallmark of his presidency. if he has a button on his desk to order a coke, the book has been written on his need for gratificatio...

President's kids. something most know not to do. >> nick, i would say this. you can say that the president's position is, people outside of the country dumping on us and all, but he's the guy that would deal with russia. and he's the guy to bring miss america to russia. he would deal outside the country whenever he wants. he does not believe in that. >> and i would just make a distinction, curious about your thoughts, between having instincts and impulses? i believe he has authoritarian impulses and instincts the way a child has an impulse or instinct to reach for a toy or cookie, but i'm not ...