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she has stocks that are absolute disasters and there is no secret about that. anybody can pull up a chart of both of those stocks and see -- >> how would you describe that? >> donald trump is in a different type of business. trump is a nonbureaucratic business where he has 100 core employees. >> what does that even mean? >> wes, i do want you to answer the specific questions that i asked, the four bankruptcies of trump's businesses, the lawsuit over trump university, the lawsuits by 300 people for buildings in florida that were never built. what are your answers to those black marks, in effect, on trump's own business record? >> well, to ben's point, if we've been in business for 30 or 40 years, like donald trump has been, no one has a perfect record. he's also in a very high-risk business where real estate