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I never thought 130,000 was a real payment, it was a nuisance payment. when i settled these, it's a couple million dollars. people don't just walk away from 130,000. >> the president did make these payments to michael cohen over the course of 2017, according to you, why did the president deny any knowledge of the payments when, in fact, he made payments? >> i don't know when the president learned about it. he could have learned about it after or not connected the whole thing at that time. the reality is those are not facts that worry me as a lawyer. those don't amount to anything, what is said...

I just don't think that passes the smell test. i don't think any of this does, and it violates fundamental principles of common sense. you don't have to be an attorney or highly educated to see through this nonsense. and that's a big problem for them as it relates to their strategy and lies. it's very simple for the american people to see what's going on here. >> rudy giuliani said he didn't think the $130,000 was particularly substantial. take a listen. >> i know this sounds funny to people there at home, i never thought $130,000 was a real payment. it's a nuisance payment. when i settle this...

More substantial? >> no, i don't agree with that, jake. i think it's well known that donald trump is incredibly cheap in many aspects of his life, and has been for decades. so the whole idea that they just threw out $130,000 as a nuisance payment to someone that they have concluded was lying, and that he never had an affair with is absurd. these are guys that if -- they now want to believe that a woman came with her hand out and they just promptly paid $130,000? it's not believable. >> your client appeared on "saturday night live." i understand it was a light hearted appearance, but there's on...

Things. there are two relevant legal things which is what my job is. number one, it was not a campaign contribution because it would have been done anyway. even if it was a campaign contribution, it was totally reimbursed. >> that was the source of the payment. now on the nature of the payment. >> i never thought it sounds funny to people at home. i never thought $130,000 was a nuisance payment. when i saw the list or it was a real possibility, it is a couple million dollars. not $130,000. >> from the nature of the payment to the timing of the payment. giuliani. >> if i were him and i were the...

Intended to make the rounds on sunday's talk shows to straighten things out, that may have backfired. there are even more questions now about what giuliani calls a nuisance payment to stormy daniels, and possibly to others if necessary, and him saying trump might refuse to comply with a possible mueller subpoena. take a listen. >> the president said you're going to get the facts straight, so let's try to get some facts on the table right to begin with. the president does acknowledge meeting stormy daniels, correct? >> i'm not really involved in the daniels thing, so i don't know. i mean, he de...