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Is there a way or how do we know whether that's actually true? is there any way for us to verify that that meeting was of no substance since it's only the word of donald trump jr. who is down played it? >> i mean from our perspective here, it's very hard to verify that. but he can be sure that is something that robert mueller is still looking into. and even if he is found that nothing of substance came out of it, that isn't really a whole hearted defense. a, there is always the obstruction probe. the very statement that was made on air force one last year when this story came out could be used...

The obstruction probe. so while others debate no one is paying attention, we know mueller is. with me now, jess mcintosh, a former aide to hillary clinton. courts have held the president's tweets are important in the immigration ban. another judge has recently ruled the president can't ban people from his twitter account because it's a matter of public record. at some point, whether you came into this election thinking the tweets were official or important, we must now that by now they are. >> they are, this president doesn't engage with us in a proper press conference the way all past preside...

Donald trump very angry, and you interviewed him about this. he said he never would have picked sessions as attorney general if he was going to recuse himself. he asked his then chief of staff reince priebus to get a resignation from sessions. priebus refuses. that's the flash point under scrutiny by the special counsel investigation. and then here's the president attacking his sitting attorney general in the rose garden. >> i told you before i'm very disappointed with the attorney general, but we will see what happens. time will tell. time will tell. >> and then because there is a tweet for e...

Would be like michael says something he would consider. people who know mueller say he doesn't consider any of the politics but you have to consider timing. >> between now and the 12th. i don't think we'll have that interview before the 12th. >> we think the obstruction probe could wrap up by the end of the summer or early fall. the timing should work out. >> i think we'll know all about north korea before we know whether the president is going to answer questions. if he keeps answering the way he was today, he's going to perjure himself. he can't keep saying there was no connection when he sa...

I comes, of course with the obstruction probe well into a serious phase and mueller had questions like this for trump, what did you think or do if regard to the recusal. what efforts did you get sessions to change his mind, trump has been vocal about all of this, here's what he said in july. >> i am disappointed in in the attorney general, he should not have recuse himself almost immediately after he took office and if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me prior to taking office and i would have quite simply picked somebody else. >> i am joined by federal prosecutor kenneth wh...