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He said not only would it we an issue of obstructing the investigation, but the obstruction itself would hurt our ability to figure out what the russians had done, and that is what would be the threat to national security. it led you to write that the collusion question and the obstruction question are now the same thing. collusion is obstruction and vice versa. explain. >> well, so as mike just described, we had sort of thought of the obstruction investigation as this kind of separate criminal investigation that arose at the time of the firing. in other words, that you had this underlying ele...

>> so they were not trusting him at that time? >> he had provided an incorrect or not what the president's ration natural was for the firing and he's supposed to be overseeing the investigation. so they're sitting there. they know there's this larger investigation into russia. they know there are these questions about the election. and they are struggling to figure out what to do. and it is in that context that they open this investigation. >> all right. legally, the obstruction question has always been you can't indict a sitting president. maybe they can't even interview him about his actions...

Investigation. they've wanted to open this up on the president for so long and they see the deputy attorney general providing cover to the president. to do the firing. the depp it attorney general so they are sitting there saying what is going on around us. what do we do and it is in that context that they open these two things. this double pronged investigation that is obviously an incredibly historical moment to be looking at the president for such a charge. >> so and just to make sure i'm clear on this. those two vest ginvestigations, are then both taken over by mueller when he is pinted? >...

Confirmed. there are some specific things they have to share with congress like if there was a disagreement about who to prosecute or some other major decision. there is not really a lot that says this has to be made public or has to be shared. the reason are looking at the executive privilege thing is we know they won't bring charges against the president. they are operating under justice department guidelines. when you look at the question of obstruction, the white house wants to shield the american public from learning details about the possibility that the president may have tried to obstr...

And now he's in breach. so i'm not sure what the timing would be for any sort of dangle anyway. it doesn't make a lot of sense to offer it up now. >> norm? >> well, if this were just one comment to the "new york post," if it were just tweets, if it were just words, if it were just even, erin, that the series of clips you played, but it's actions. he did fire comey. he has, again and again, manifested an intention and actions to interfere with this investigation. he did dictate a false statement for his son, a key witness. and it's that larger pattern. these are more tiles in the mosaic. we'll ...