Before in american history is a complete refusal to produce any witnesses or any documents. that's why he's being impeached, not because they're having a fight about an individual subpoena. >> yeah, but this is a political issue. the american people are looking at this, and this is why the impeachment has been going down like this in terms of people's interest. >> you're making -- >> because accusing him of obstruction -- i'm actually agreeing with your original point. when you have an article of impeachment and obstruction of jurn, the american people go, oh, that's just congress fighting. it...