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Country. even president biden the second straight 800 million-dollar military aid package, there has been criticism that is two steps behind initiative happen sooner and more offensive weapons in the arbitrary distinctions about what is an offensive weapon all try not to overly provoke putin. your thoughts. >> my thoughts are ultimately this is about stopping genocide which is what we see, there are not to side to genocide. there are not two sides to bottom reproving been a tremendously evil person we can activate that. howard: is a debate how you get there. >> i agree with that, there is a de...

Take ef~ it— cotton stuck like when they tried to take ef. it does not change the fact that you _ take ef. it does not change the fact that you have multiplied motivated troops _ that you have multiplied motivated troops on _ that you have multiplied motivated troops on ukraine side to take on very poorly— troops on ukraine side to take on very poorly logistically supported troops _ very poorly logistically supported troops that are absolutely unsupported, they outnumber the ukrainians— unsupported, they outnumber the ukrainians but they are not doing terribly— ukrainians but they are ...

Us all. and in his opinion, there will be -- then filled with some guys coming from siberia, somewhere else, from russian empire. >> when we speak with ukrainian officials they always say they need more weapons. but also last night i was speaking with yuri who runs a large energy company here in ukraine as the former energy minister -- infrastructure minister. he was saying they are subsidizing to the tune of $1.3 billion energy for ukrainians. what else does ukraine need from the west, from europe and the u.s. when it comes to getting ukrainians' basic necessities? >> i would say that until w...

Think we are very far from either case. i -- i -- i'm sorry to say this, but i think this is going to grind on for months to come. >> yeah. we saw this week, the foreign ministers -- nato's foreign ministers meeting to discuss what other help they can offer ukraine. ukraine's foreign minister put it pretty bluntly, saying weapons, weapons, weapons. what is nato willing to do? how far are various countries willing to go? >> well, they're -- they're going pretty far. there is this slight nervousness because the line between what's a defensive weapon and an offensive weapon is quickly disappearin...

World to take it back and we don't have a strategy for victory. we have a strategy for a stalemate and frozen conflict where russia gets part of ukraine. we can't have a frozen conflict. every single russian soldier should be driven from ukraine. >> sandra: in line with everything we have heard from the generals joining us on the program often, they say we have helped them on the defense long enough. let's put them on the offense. wall street journal editorial board writing we need a winning tragedy, not just defensive. final thoughts. >> same thing we hear from them about well, we can give th...