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Committee'sed that reports on the two deaths. they had the ig reports of the activities earlier in the program. everyone knew that the program i was briefing was created as a result of how bad the agency had begun to do the work early on in the war. >> so everyone knew, the hypocrisys we will tauch touch on here, does that make it all right? are values being represented well by conducting these tactics that someone would call torture and murder? >> first, put the two deaths aside, they have been prosecuted twice. they were not a part of this program, deeply regrettable. in agency custody, diff...

Program i was telling them about was because this agency had performed so badly with what i think david ignacious described earlier was an ad hock battlefield program that they had begun in afghanistan and, mica, the committees had the ig reports on the two deaths. they had the ig reports of the activities earlier in the program. everyone knew that the program i was briefing was created as a result of how badly the agency had begun to do the work early on in the war. >> david ignacious, you know, there are many with a lot of stature who say the methods used. some call those methods torture, we...

They do countless, thousands of hours of deposition and transcribed interviews. they pour over more documents than any other committee of the congress and they're able to qualitatively search for and find in ig reports, in freedom of information reports and obviously in working with whistle-blowers, things that no other committee can find and i think that that's a genuine statement for both side. there is no better set of committee staff than what we are honored to have. i thank you for bringing that up. we now go to the gentleman from ohio, mr. turner. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. gruber, ...

I was taught that in basic training. if you are captured, america will come for you. that's an important message to send to our troops and forever. >> let me get right to the va scandal. here is what the president said, shinseki is out. we got to make sure the veterans who are not getting the care one by one get the care, but there are needs. what specific needs are there right now that the government has to address? >> well, first of all, we have to clean house. the va has a systemic problem. so we need a total turnaround. we cannot middle around the edge. it has to be a national call to acti...

There's no doubt. we certainly encourage vets to continue to go to the va especially if they're in crisis. >> you know, chris, what's shocking to me, it seems the president of the united states, secretary of veterans affairs, they were shocked to learn about all of these problems. that they really didn't know what was going on. lower level officials weren't telling them the truth. that's pretty shocking in and of itself. >> it is. you had the president today say, well how did this happen? at his speech earlier this morning, his last speak as secretary, eric shinseki said i was lied to. you hav...