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Consensus among the actors that they want to move to a system in which we use our electronic advantages to help secure the advantages to make sure that people aren't hiring undocumented workers, et cetera. the question is, is it so burdensome an that you end up putting the pathway part so far down the road that it makes it pointless for pro immigration reform supporters to sign onto the bill. >> let's be fair here. you and i, sam, and the governor here have to show a passport to visit these other countries besides the united states. we have to have a form. we have to be legal. why don't people...

Besides the united states. we have to have a form. we have to be legal. why don't people coming here have to have a passport? why does it seem so onerous? any american who travels says it's not onerous to have a passport. it's the law and we enforce it. why isn't it true to come the other way? >> the on rouse aspect is on the people already here, not on the people who in the future may come here. the question is what is the metric? how will we define a secure border? i'm not sure people realize what we would have 0 devote to have 100% secure boarder. i'm not even sure if that's possible. >> ho...