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Bill shine is joining the white house. shine left fox news after he was accused of covering up or downplaying allegations of workplace harassment and discrimination. joining me now is npr's media correspondent and the author of the book "the last of the old media empires." david, this is not a household name. what role did bill shine play in building up what fox news is today? >> he was a guy who had been a producer in the world of talk radio in long island. he came up with sean hannity, who was one of the earliest and most pivotal personalities for fox news. a champion of bill o'reilly, anoth...

Businesses. now he suddenly likes fox news and says it's all about democracy and i'm sure we could come up with a couple of other changes even though in the same interview, he said he has not changed as a person. he has not come to the center. i don't know, i'm a little confused. >> when you talk about people have a point of view, he's also again taking a hit at fox by saying you have a point of view and a long history. i think judging by the person if you're an opinion show, that's the point of view. there's nobody reading a point of view. >> i think this all goes back to when anita dunne who...