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Security. about 800,000 government workers, though, are affected by this shut down as we hit hour 17. roughly 420,000 considered essential are working with no pay and another 380,000 are on unpaid leave. joining me now, "wall street journal" white house reporter vivian solama, political report for the "washington post," eugene scott and nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. a lot of boxes and expertise. krist kristen welker in new york, what has happened since you and i spoke about an hour ago. >> it's striking that leader mcconnell has said this is not going to be resolved until ...

Then he starts to get into it a real political problem. that would probably inflame his base more if he goes back on his promise. >> neil: he can deal with the wrath that may be out there if the government shutdown through the christmas holiday. it's not as if anyone would run back to town or stay in town to cobble something together. >> they very well could. i think the democrats, even if republicans say we can't pass anything, let's punt to january, democrats and probably be here every day trying to win the optics argument, especially if the president goes to mar-a-lago. the federal governme...

Cannot be looked at as just a part of the political branch. that is what makes them so nervous about it. they can't be looked at as republicans or democrat, and right now, and this doesn't always happen, there are four members who were appointed by republicans president, and four by liberals. that doesn't always happen. we have had that switch around before, so they are very, very concerned about this. and they are also, i think that kagan made that interesting note about the swing vote, because now anthony kennedy is gone, and before anthony kennedy, justice sandra o'connor was the swing vote...

Were they g-men ornd? were they acting as g-men or tools of the white house. >> i don't know what a g-man is. >> you don't know the old '30s movies, but -- the fbi guys. >> ultimately, the white house is their client, so they are restricted. but they know and they recognize -- >> well, they're not pinkertons. they work for the united states, not the just the president. >> but the white house is ultimately the client. and as greg said, there are things that the white house can limit the scope on. and they recognize that they're being used by the white house here, they're being used by the senat...

Didn't do. i would advise the president to let us handle this. >> okay. so, jennifer rubin, obviously the tail end of that is that lindsey graham recognizes the optics problem radiates outside of that committee. donald trump, 19 accusers. he supported roy moore who was basically banned from the mall because of allegations that he preyed on young girls. the optics are bad all the way around, but lindsey graham says god only knows how many may never come ford, but he knows people are sometimes accused of things they didn't do. that's the line. this will mean no man will ever be able to be appoin...