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But then they see msnbc and cnn going up and up and up. steve: because they are anti-trump, business model, maybe that makes sense. >> it seems like they want to go in that direction. and i can can see that the wrap we are an entertainment site basted out of l.a. and sometimes we will have great original reporting about who is starring in the next avenger story or joe scarborough saying something about trump will get more traffic. steve: people are interested in controversy. take look brian, wednesday is donald trump jr. network coverage. abc over on abc, as you can see right there, they spent...

Organizations that produce real reporting that -- that -- that counters the president's narrative. now, joe and mika, they don't actually do any original reporting. they facilitate a political conversation, and they used to be friends, or supporters of the president, or certainly more friendly to him, than they are now. and it's sort of gives us an insight in to the president and what he is spending his time and energy on. and that's what i find most alarming about it. >> i think that's a key point. i think it raises the other question, what would happen if he didn't have all these media allie...

And when he says things, people do take notice. it comes with a certain amount of credibility. >> absolutely, and i think that's why some folks put on the brakes or are tapping the brakes, at least, when he came out last night outside the white house and said i was in the room, this story is false. now, to your point, a close listening or reading suggests that what general mcmaster was doing was sort of denying things that aren't in the story. and you've seen cnn, "the new york times," buzzfeed, lots of other people confirm and in relatively short order, confirm the "washington post" original ...

Illegal immigrants, they tell us commit far fewer crimes than native-born americans do. ann coulter is an author and spent a lot of time researching this matter and she says the times, the post and the rest of the press are totally full of it and joins us now. ann, thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me. >> tucker: so you're routinely described as a provocateur. at least on this subject, you're legitimately an expert. you wrote an entire book on this there was a lot of original reporting on it. i read it. a lot of people did. thank you very much for that. >> thank you. >> tucker: on ...

Illegal immigrants, they tell us, commit far fewer crimes than native-born americans do. ann coulter spent a lot of time researching this and she says they are full of it. you are routinely described as a provocateur, but at least on this subject, you are an expert, you wrote a book with a lot of original reporting. i read it, a lot of people dead, they can vouch for it. on this specific question, immigrant crime, "the times" told us again and again, that is not true. what are the facts, what are the numbers on this? >> i have all the numbers, that we have, there aren't very many, i think it's...