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One is in the typical oversight area, that is nonimpeachment oversight, typically the executive and the congress try to work it out. the congress has executive privilege claims that he or she may want to make and the congress wants the testimony and they try to work out some accommodations so that the president can protect the privilege to some extent but the congress receives the information that it wants. but now we're in impeachment. and the congress is making the case, and i think it is obviously a very strong case, that the impeachment power is when congress's demand for the information i...

Endangers that claim. that was the point that bolton and cupperman made. they said we have never done anything like that, and we don't want mulvaney in our action. they claim they're completely neutral. they will do what the court directed them to do. whereas in mulvaney's case he appeared to be pro-executive. he had a position in the case, and they didn't want his position to tar their more neutral position. >> it is striking to me that a lot of this -- we have talked about this a bit before as we head into the formal part of this process. these fights between the branches who has to testify ...

This is systemic. i think when the nation, and i think the american people and the rest of congress and the senate found out this was systemic, you know, there's a lot of things that need to happen now, but this say great opportunity. and i'm grateful that the secretary has stepped aside. i'm grateful that the president said today that this needs to be an urgent action type of thing. it does need to have urgent action. i think that's one of the things that's been missing. the slow response, just the beleaguered continued refusal from the va to have any cooperation with congress at all in the o...