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Now with congress in its oversight function. eric: is that enough for a reason to call for impeachment, eric holder was held in contempt, you have obama administration and other administrations pushing back against congressional oversight. >> no, congressional oversight pushback is normal. i served in the state department and handled the work with the house for the secretary of state, but we didn't block on a repetitive basis every possible witness that democrats in this case are asking for, which is what's happening, so there's going to need to be a moment where speaker pelosi looks at her ca...

There had been a few that had been in favor of impeachment proceedings, but it changed their opinions immediately. and i think the thinking is if you get robert mueller up there and read out loud some of the passages in the mueller report, it would change public sentiment. >> you used to work in the executive branch. the current administration seems to think that complying with subpoenas is optional. what's your reaction to that? >> i worked under the executive branch in the two previous administrations. and there's no doubt that the executive branch and the legislative branch certainly at con...

You hold these hearings? you have an impeachment inquiry and say never mind, we're not going to impeach or is it a runaway train once it gets going? >> it's hard to tell. the fact is that the president has given us no choice. i believe the special counsel laid out solid evidence that there was obstruction before the report was filed. for me, the last straw was the obstruction continuing after the fact. so, it makes our oversight function nearly impossible. part of this is getting the american public to the point where they understand its validity. and again simply arguing in court and having p...

I think they both -- legal arguments in front of courts get subpoenas answered and force people to testify. i also think the hearings that will come with the impeachment inquiry will help educate, inform the american public. one thing that struck me last week is the power of the special counsel's message when mr. mueller said what he said. he was just reading from his own report. but it's clear that a large amount of the american public took mr. barr to his word that the report exonerated him. so i think the inquiry serves two purposes. it helps us with our oversight function and it educates t...

Could flex the motion and who had to prove a legislative purpose. up till now it's the president thumbing his nose and stonewalling and saying what are you going to do about it? in walks the third co-equal branch of the government, the judiciary to say let's resolve this chicken game. both of you are going at each other. you don't have to prove a legislative purpose to me initial think, to the president of the united states, you can actually assert it because you have the authority to do so and number two, it can't possibly be that congress was not supposed to be able to have oversight over yo...