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Understanding of how stuff works, how firefighter works. if -- how government works. if there's nobody holding people to account, of course they're going abuse power. even if they're the most noble human beings we have seen. >> as an afor indiana dough of james bond movies, everytime they tried to rein in that agency, bond was doing his thing. >> didn't qualify for the test last time. >> thank god. i'm just saying that i don't think that's such fiction. >> it is not fiction. you have unaccountable organizations that are incentivize it by the power structure to get -- grab ever more power becau...

Yourself in, and not even the most powerful man in the world knows what they're doing, who is to say they'll do anything they're being toll to do? >> exactly. ever since 1948, actually, national security became a reason for secrecy. so all of that military or surveillance out there had to say to cover its own behind was that, i'm sorry, it's closed to national security. we can't tell anybody about it. can't tell the fisa court judge, the president, anyone. >> too you believe that -- when i heard the president say, i was not aware -- pear phrasing -- this was going on -- that worries me. the gu...