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Which right now precludes them from taking any offense of action. of course the secondary sanctions that we heard so much about targeted chinese and russian banks in bringing an international coalition to also begin putting this quake on the chinese. at the bottom line is we have to raise the pain threshold with the chinese so that they change the status quo of having their buffer state. we have to do it fast because the north korean capability is progressing month by month. >> martha: fits the key thing here. we need to put pressure on china. they are our biggest trading partner, the presiden...

Al assad. >> ian lee in istanbul. thank you. we'll talk more. ben judah, first to you, i think ian hit on it, but, again, the fact that this executioner, unmasked, speaking in russian, he's taunting russians and vladimir putin. >> yes. i wouldn't overestimate or underestimate russia's pain threshold. russia has had a huge culture of violence and terrorism. per capita rate, the terrorism is equivalent to front line states like israel, pakistan, not in any way comparable to the united states or britain which have frankly very few deaths despite the current levels of fear about this. but also i w...

Should truly desire with russia right now? >> look. you know, we're not going to become vladmir putin's best friend or trusted confidant. it is far too late for that. if we had an opportunity, it was a decade ago and it's gone and it's behind us. that doesn't mean we can't work with russians. plenty of issues, their interests are not much different than ours. they're prepared to do deals. they don't want to be in a state of war with the united states, with nato, with the wider global, economic trading system that they depend on for their own prosperity and that means they're going to be prepar...

How far they wanted to see western influence move in what they regard as their backyard. and as ukraine gang to unravel, we should have been anticipating a rather forceful russian response. >> p.j. crowley, is vladimir putin as big a devil in all of this as many in america and indeed europe would like to portray him or does he have a point of wanting in his eyes to protect the interests of russian speaking people in the ukraine. does he have any merit in terms of the russian national interest, never mind anybody else's. >> as steven said, i agree that russia has a keen interest in the ukraine ...

From the cold war to ukraine. putin is a brutally rational actor, the dilemma is that he has a high pain threshold and he probably is willing to pay a higher price that is in russia's long-term interest to have a sway in the future of ukraine. >> steven, wasn't america a bit too quick to -- if you look at somewhere like egypt, it's very easy to back the new horse without really being sure what that new horse is going to do and then regret it later? >> i think that's right. and the issue in russia of course is that you cukraine is next door, as p.j. said, it's always been considered a vital int...