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Investigation. if you pardon somebody, all right, well, that means they are -- they don't have much to worry about with regard to whatever the pardon covers. but if bob mueller, for instance, wants to take a pardoned person, put that person before a grand jury, that person no longer has the ability to say i'm going to invoke my fifth amendment right. that's been stripped away. you have a pardon. and that person then becomes a perfect witness for the special counsel. >> so there you have it. always the lawyer, josh. as a civilian, what do you find notable in the persons and pattern of pardons t...

People seems to be billing a set of ways to cash this out and ru rudy -- one might say a guilty-sounding argument and the hold ear holder builds on that, take a listen. >> if you pardon somebody, they don't have much to worry about on what the pardon covers. if bob mueller wants to take a pardon to person. that person no longer has the ability to say i want to -- then that person becomes a perfect witness for the special counsel. >> nelson your analysis. >> so i think we have to bear in mind two things. where is he going?

If you pardon somebody, all right, well, that means they are -- they don't have much to worry about with regard to whatever the pardon covers. but if bob mueller, for instance, wants to take a pardoned person, put that person before a grand jury, that person no longer has the ability to say i'm going to invoke my fifth amendment right. that's been stripped away. you have a pardon. and that person then becomes a perfect witness for the special counsel. >> so there you have it. always the lawyer, josh. as a civilian, what do you find notable in the persons and pattern of pardons thus far in this...

Everyone. here's a man we heard from earlier on this same subject. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i think the president is trying to send a message to some people who potentially might be involved in the russia investigation. if you pardon somebody, all right, well, that means they are -- they don't have much to worry about with regard to whatever the pardon covers. but if bob mueller, for instance, wants to take a pardoned person, put that person before a grand jury, that person no longer has the ability to say i'm going to invoke my fifth amendment right. that's been stripped away...

Words than what he said to the "washington post" in saying that this is clearly a message to the people under investigation, don't rat me out because i got your back. >> the former attorney general eric holder who served under president obama, he said this about the whole pardon capability. listen. >> if you pardon somebody, well, that means that they are -- they don't have much to worry about with regard to whatever the pardon covers. but if bob mueller, for instance, wants to take a pardoned person, put that person before a grand jury, that person no longer has the ability to say, i'm going ...