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>> pat, my little quiet pat. cost containment. is that an issue? >> the issue is we can't afford to not do health care reform, but this isn't health care reform. it's health care coverage expansion. those are trove, very different things. health care reform means blowing up the fee tore service system and paying for results, paying for health outcomes. not paying for procedures. but that involves a radical reworking of the entire system that is not what has ever been on the table. >> right now it seems like the public option, erik, might still be on the table. >> here is what we're hearing, th...

>> thank you, pat. i'm not giving up. and the other issue is that if you look your point, which is that a state or government, they can't go bankrupt. if they're losing money, they have to pay the benefits. in a normal private business, if they overpromise, they go bankrupt and it goes away. >> you are quiet -- not quiet. mark, i think the point here is that government is choosing industries to invest in. most likely -- most of us would agree they do need to create the national highway system and all the rest, but that's not where all the money is going right now. >> that's where a lot of stim...

I don't think so. let's see if they're serious and they're intentional, absolutely. >> hmm, i don't know. toby, what if i almost kill somebody? >> look, evidently charlie rangel is sort of our leader in this deal, so let's just draw the line there. if you do anything worse than charlie rangel, probably you should get fired. i'll leave it at that. >> tom delay did a lot worse than charlie rangel. >> it really doesn't matter, they cheated. >> come on. >> you can hardly blame them. tim geithner is the enforcer. he did it, too. >> pat what, do you think of this? >> -- the government is very compli...