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That makes it sound like the cia was not only torturing bad guys like ksm or abu zubaida, but inon sent people. >> you're using the word torture and i would dispute that the people in enhanced interrogation program, that was harsh, brutal tactic. >> you're not disputing that the force-feeding people rectally is torture. >> no, absolutely not. those were abuses. the system was not perfect. there were abuses along the way. >> it's more than abuses. they were abhorrent. >> i'm not going to contest that. >> it sounds like innocent people, not just bad guy, innocent people were subjected to this to...

Most schoking to americans. one detainee in the report, the allegation is he froze to death because of the conditions he was kept in. as richard was mentioning, people forced to stand on broken legs. to me, are we seeing a lot of pushback on those specific, horrifying details here? >> no, you're not. and you're not going to. that was a strategic decision, i think, on the agency's part, to not try and defend the propriety or the morality of things like force-feeding people rectally, another thing we found out in the report today, which is pretty astonishing. what they've tried to do is especial...