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Of these conditions, they could do it, chris, but they continue to lock people up. >> the final question, hope. go ahead. >> can i add something to that? the rio problem, the cruelty starts at the border patrol, but the actual clog in the pipeline are the orr shelters where the children, unaccompanied children go where they are failing to release them because those shelters are run by for-profit contractors. so they make a per head, per bed dollar on each child. so there is no incentive to release children. it's failure to release that causes the backlog that causes children to be kept unbelie...

Administration. they want migrants to see what's going on. they want it to look this way because they believe people will turn around and not come to this country by using what appeared to be cruel conditions, inhumane conditions, inhospitable conditions. if they truly wanted to cap the number, they would cap the number. but we continue to see people incarcerated. we continue to see people in conditions that are frankly not good for their health. if they want to get people out of these conditions, they could do it, chris, but they continue to lock people up. >> the final question, hope. go ahe...

There? >>dave: the penalty is smaller than the cost of health care so it depends on how much provide. a small business owner has 60 employee and does not provide health care at all. he is faced with $50 a head in penalty if the law continues on the books or providing health care, this probably $750 a month per head. and, so, that guy will pay the penalty. but you just took $60,000 a year out of that guy's pocket and sent it to washington in penalties. guess what? that is probably two jobs you cost him. >>neil: they might turn what you said around and say, well, if everyone were forced to pay f...

Paid. >> like $60 per head. >> are you serious? how did they find you? >> basically we're all of the people who are out of work right now, and on the bench been out of work, so something like that. >> and they just found you guys. >> he no a list. >> there's a list of people, oh, my god, okay. >> and basically all the people been out of work for a while for the local. that's who we are. >> you're part of a union. >> yeah. >> and you know what this is? >> no, i haven't-- >> you don't know what the event is cpac. >> no, told me you want to make 60 bucks. >> mike: i'm all about helping people fin...