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Madness. politically and socially and economically. paul: tell us how you really feel, doug. i mean, i want to -- [laughter] >> yeah, exactly. >> paul: i want to get to this resistance strategy a little bit. >> sure. paul: you've got, is this really -- did i frame it correctly by calling it a fight between, basically, the obama/clinton wing on the one hand with perez and the sanders/warren wing on the other with ellison? >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. ellison opened an early lead. there are reports from the perez camp that they've got 180 of the 244 votes they will need. those are hear...

I think, paul, very simply, it's madness. politically and socially and economically. paul: tell us how you really feel, doug. i mean, i want to -- [laughter] >> yeah, exactly. >> paul: i want to get to this resistance strategy a little bit. >> sure. paul: you've got, is this really -- did i frame it correctly by calling it a fight between, basically, the obama/clinton wing on the one hand with perez and the sanders/warren wing on the other with ellison? >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. ellison opened an early lead. there are reports from the perez camp that they've got 180 of the 244 vot...

Last week. we talked about everything you just mentioned. i don't think he's -- i think he is a good and decent man. i told him my support would not be forthcoming. he assured me if he won he would resign the congressional seat. >> ellison or tom perez? >> tom perez is a great guy. either one of them will be very good. tom perez, we know is interested in diversity and inclusion. he ran the civil rights division of the justice department. i wouldn't pick between the two. >> why not? >> both are good. the one thing we don't need in the democratic party are additional splits. where we have a pere...

And keith ellison. however, he decided not to endorse from the stage. talking to aides from the other campaigns, the thought was most of mayor pete, as he likes to be called, his support came from the ellison side of the camp, so this could be very good news for keith ellison who needs good news right now. the last 24 hours have gone against him and more towards the perez camp. one more piece of news, sheinelle, the party, after a lot of internal discussion, just recently decided to switch from electronic balloting to paper balloting. that's going to delay the election, delay the whole process...