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Republicans and making sure they stay in line. it was the same issue in 1998 which is we didn't worry about what the republicans were doing. we just needed to make sure the democrats stayed with the president. spent a lot of time and effort on it. so the fact that there are republicans now like senator grassley who is directly criticizing the president on the whistle-blower issue is significant. >> let me read you what chuck grassley said. ought to be heard out and protected. whether it comes the distinction being drawn, it's not part of whistle-blower protection law or any agency policy. the ...

One, he agrees with king. and there is a case for that. trump did visit with king early on. he did adopt his pet issue of border security. he does discuss it the same way. and king describes himself the same way the president does. >> under any fair political definition, i am simply an american nationalist. >> nationalism is not patriotism. they should not be conflated and he knows it, and so does the president, or he should. the second choice, the president saw no upside. the media, the left, they'd come after him, no matter what he said. so he just stayed quiet. that's what several of his pe...

All of congress, and this president said nothing. why not? only two choices. one, he agrees with king. and there is a case for that. trump did visit with king early on. he did adopt his pet issue of border security. he does discuss it the same way. and king describes himself the same way the president does. >> under any fair political definition, i am simply an american nationalist. >> nationalism is not patriotism. they should not be conflated and he knows it, and so does the president, or he should. the second choice, the president saw no upside. the media, the left, they'd come after him, n...

Look at the overall divide on this are numbers i think that have gotten folks to fold in the past. so it seems like those old political rules aren't applying necessarily as the white house certainly, which is losing on the side of overall public opinion right now to believe the polls, they don't seem to apply here. what would it take politically? is there any sense that would change that equation? >> there are a couple things that are very different about this shutdown, steve. generally speaking during a shutdown it's the president that wants the government to be open. the president that wants...

Whole world, how what is happening with different types of experimental launch systems. all of those things are just flat out wrong. >> it was an interesting -- that moment was particularly interesting because the president has this pet issue with steam catapult launchers on aircraft carriers, how they're launched into the air, versus electromagnetic. he put that officer on the spot saying which one do you support? i was waiting for his answer. to his credit, he said listen, these are better. and i wondered for a moment whether he was going to be dropped off at the nearest deserted island. kai...