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Decades. he works for the oecd and is the mastermind behind the test which compares school systems around the world. he's written a fascinating book about the lessons he's learned. it's called "world class: building a 21st century school system." welcome, andreas. first, explain the pisa test. the united states does not do very well on this test. i think what people need to understand is, it is a test that measures problem solving, intelligence, creativity. it is not just cramming of facts, right? >> absolutely. we put less weight on content knowledge and more on your capacity to think like a ...

Decades. he works for the oecd and is the mastermind behind the test which compares school systems around the world. he's written a fascinating book about the lessons he's learned. it's called "world class: building a 21st century school system." welcome, andreas. first, explain the pisa test. the united states does not do very well on this test. i think what people need to understand is, it is a test that measures problem solving, intelligence, creativity. it is not just cramming of facts, right? >> absolutely. we put less weight on content knowledge and more on your capacity to think like a ...

But what happens in the classroom every day in the schools matters just as much. >> well, i personally think the social science leading me to the conclusion it matters less than what happens outside of the schools. and i think if you look at the comparative data we have from pisa, let's look at the places doing it right. that have a whole variety of educational systems, poland, finland, there are a lot of different practices. the thing that jumps out, they have a lot less poor kids, many, many fewer kids. >> let's look at what you're trying to say, to your point, let's look at pisa, if you loo...

Are lots of programs that should be in place and that are very important. but what happens in the classroom every day in the schools matters just as much. >> well, i personally think the social science leading me to the conclusion it matters less than what happens outside of the schools. and i think if you look at the comparative data we have from pisa, let's look at the places doing it right. that have a whole variety of educational systems, poland, finland, there are a lot of different practices. the thing that jumps out, they have a lot less poor kids, many, many fewer kids. >> let's look a...

What happens outside of the schools. and i think if you look at the comparative data we have from pisa, let's look at the places doing it right. that have a whole variety of educational systems, poland, finland, there are a lot of different practices. the thing that jumps out, they have a lot less poor kids, many, many fewer kids. >> let's look at what you're trying to say, to your point, let's look at pisa, if you look in the united states from 2003 until now, on the pisa test, actually, the poorest kids in this country have gained about 11 points. the richest kids in this country have actual...