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Looking forward to that face-off come thursday. what will you be looking and listening for? >> sure, the two things i'm really going to be listening for, one, the way that warren and sanders sort of partnered together in the previous debate to sort of makes it progressives against everybody else. i wonder if they're going to do it this time. it looks like we're in a pivotal moment in the warren campaign, she can surge in such a way as she present herself as the alternative to joe biden. she not only needs to create some space, needs to gain ground on briiden which she's already doing but creat...

That has proven time and time again to be biased against african-americans and that means she needs to earn the trust of black and progressive voters. the decision she made around wrongful convictions, now being given a hard look by voters. do you expect this will come up tonight? do you think this explains part of why african-american voters are still so strongly supporting joe biden over her candidacy? >> do i expect it to come up but i don't expect it in a way that informs the voters in a positive way about her positions. i think it will come up in a way that really designed to pit her agai...

Beliefs aside and act in the best interests of the country. they are telling two vastly different stories. doesn't your theory only work when they rise above politics? >> i think the founders understood there would be a lot of politics. i find it interesting people telling the other story are the people fighting disclosure. normally isn't it progressives that want governments to produce information? at the end of the day that's what we need. we need the american people to know what russia did in 2016, and now to know what our intelligence and law enforcement agencies did. the inspector general...