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Attorneys. these can be extremely expensive retainers. we saw this in cassidy hutchinson's case. she was not able to share what she wanted to. >> that happened, we knew that de oliveira, they had gone through his phone, seized it, he had not be charged. it was when the indictment came down, we spoke to sources at the time who said tavares, who was known as employee number four, he's the it worker at the center of this, that he had spoken to investigators. then it was later we learned about woodward and the fact he had changed attorneys there. woodward is someone who represents not just people ...

It worker -- >> this is employee number four in the original indictment. >> that's right. trump employee number fourm. according to prosecutors, he at first said he knew nothing about any conversations about the surveillance video and it appears, after he ditched his trump-funded lawyer and got representation from the public defender, he changed his story and he provided information to prosecutors according to this court filing and he implicated that the former president, walt nauta, his aide, as well as carlos de olivera were part of this. >> what did they want to judge to do? >> the prosecut...

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For the future, of course. kurt, i have to ask you this. the image of the rainman, the autistic person with exceptional powers. that's a cliche, isn't it? yeah, it's there until today, you know, believe it or not. but it's something that we completely disagree because the rainman picture is like you are really good in especially one thing. and that is of course, not true for colleagues. they are capable to do a lot of different things in a really fantastic manner. so it's a cliche. the idea of the autistic it worker is becoming a bit of a representation of the community. but obviously there ar...

To find their way into the business. that's what we are trying to change. that's what we have been changing quite significantly already and that remains our focus for the future, of course. kurt, i have to ask you this. the image of the rainman, the autistic person with exceptional powers. that's a cliche, isn't it? yeah, it's there until today, you know, believe it or not. but it's something that we completely disagree because the rainman picture is like you are really good in especially one thing. and that is of course, not true for colleagues. they are capable to do a lot of different thing...