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Private insurers and in coming years, they include changes to that medicare tried to do a little bit less of paying for quantity of health care and more of paying for quality of health care. there are health experts to which the plan did more. there are those who see it as on the way to death panels. that's basically what -- >> >> the obama plan. the white house, basically are saying no commitment to any recipient, someone over 65, nobody's going to get hurt. is that fair? >> well, i don't know whether that's fair. anytime you change a program, it has the potential to be both better and/or wor...

Now back to "hardball." >> you said earlier this year, rhine paul ryan's earlier medicare proposal is absolutely right on. so i'm curious, is there anything about it you disagree -- >> well, the items we agree on i think outweigh any differences. i can't imagine any two people even in the same party that have exact there same positions on all issues. >> that's not very effective. the biggest risk of a rag candidate mike romney misses in picking a fire brand like paul ryan is all the gaps in romney's plans will be filled in with ryan's details. ryan is not so sure he wants to be wedded to romne...

A response to that. the saving his ad attacks do not cut a single guaranteed medicare benefit and mitt romney embraced the same savings when he promised he would sign paul ryan's budget. david here. there we go back to the shell game that goes on here, where by paul ryan assumes the cut that is obama recommended in his affordable act bill, in fact, carried and signed. and yet, he says i wouldn't go that route. and back to the question of is it really going to work? the obama plan, to basically force the savings to the providers and not effect theo the recipients. >> if we were to try to boil t...

>> i don't know that we know. if we were bogey to try to boil this down, they are there are so many different charges about who is cutting medicare more. i think what we would say is obama, for better or worse, has more modest changes or cuts to medicare. he has some. the republican plan has much more. so the question is how much change to medicare do you want? modest changes, obama's plan. or more radical changes because you're more worried about the fiscal sustainability of medicare. we're not hearing that debate because basically, neither side wants to. they want credit for being bold on th...

That medicare tried to do a little bit less of paying for quantity of health care and more of paying for quality of health care. there are health experts to which the plan did more. there are those who see it as on the way to death panels. >> the obama plan. the white house, basically are saying no commitment to any recipient, someone over 65, nobody's going to get hurt. is that fair? >> well, i don't know whether that's fair. anytime you change a program, it has the poesh l to be potential to be better or worse. there may be things in the future that medicare doesn't pay for. on the other han...