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That transaction but also some of the other police involved with the with shooting who said expletive your breath when he was gasping for air on the ground. there is a dismiss sal of the human life they are interacting with which transcends a 73-year-old insurance executive. it's part of police culture too much nowadays. i think we have to imagine that. the reason we are talking about this and have a right-left moment of criminal justice reform is largely because we have more videotape here of this. we get to see not just the actions but also the attitudes behind the alaska sactions that perva...

Technically the definition is culpable negligence, it's an accident that's so horrific that a person -- a reasonable person under those circumstances would never have made that mistake. and because you've never told us about a police officer who's ever made that mistake, it is -- >> part of the problem, mark. it may help your argument you tell me, this guy isn't really a police officer. he is the ceo of an insurance company given a lot of money to the police department, the lawyer for the decedent's family says he was playing cop at the time. >> and the police department should be sued for all...

The police department, the lawyer for the decedent's family says he was playing cop at the time. >> and the police department should be sued for allowing a 73-year-old to run around with a gun and a taser, that shouldn't happen. >> but he had training. >> correct he was reserve officer of the year in 2012. i disagree with arthur's assessment of the law. just because arthur hasn't heard of cases like this, there are. and to hold cops to perfection is unacceptable. >> mark -- >> perfection? he pulled out the wrong weapon that is far from perfection. if you told me he was trying to shoot him and ...

Then he pursued that person even though 911 told him not to do it. later i heard others say well, trayvon was moving toward him, but he says he's moving to the other entrance, and he didn't want trayvon to get away. >> he was playing cop, and he was clearly not defending himself. never expressed that at all. let me play the tape for you senator and professor perry. let's play exactly what mr. zimmerman said. >> they always get away. >> are you following him? >> okay, we don't need you to do that. are you following him? yeah. he says they always get away. he was asked, and think said you don't ...