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Attack that they're basically indicting the oath keepers. they've always been -- you know, we knew members of the oath keepers were there. what does that tell you and what does it tell you that they don't lay it out, they don't lay out exactly what they have? is it they're protecting somebody? is that one possibility? or do they not -- do they may not have the dots -- they have some dotted lines, but they don't have any direct lines yet? >> i doubt they would have brought these charges unless the i's were dotted and the t's were crossed, but the federal rules of pleading don't require you to g...

There are members who don't want to do that, and i would hope that we could convince them that it needs to be done. but that's what schumer has been trying to do. look, there are a whole lot of bills over there who are supported by the overwhelming majority of americans. let me give you just one example, chuck, that we passed last congress and this congress, months and months ago, and that is universal background checks for guns so that criminals and terrorists and people with mental health, domestic -- 85% to 90% of the american public supports that legislation, but we can't get it up on the ...

Seem to think manchin -- if manchin and sinema are no's on this, on this rule change, that it may not be 48 democrats are on the other side. >> reporter: chuck, i have thought all week that we might not even see this vote happen for exactly that reason. that by putting this vote on the floor you just expose how far you potentially are from the outcome you want. for example, we saw that on the minimum wage bill that happened in the middle of last year when they were starting to debate the build back better act. exposing that you don't have the votes is rarely a good legislative strategy, althou...