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Dynamics on these two nights. let's start on night one. the interesting thing is there are really five candidates in this democratic race who are popping in the polls. four of them are on night two. one of them, elizabeth warren, is on night one. that creates its own interesting dynamic. it means warren doesn't get the opportunity to share the stage with joe biden, bernie sanders, pete buttigieg, with camela harris it. does raise the question what's the audience size going to be. will there be less interest in this debate than the second? will that hurt her? the opportunity is she can stand ou...

Which is a program of aid to those countries. i heard you talking about it earlier in this hour. that is as a way to try to help the conditions in those countries so that people aren't actually coming here. >> look, rick, what is the plus/minus? the plus/minus is it feels strong. i'm going to punish you if you don't do what i want. what if we all learned as parents in my case a constantly failing parent, which is when you catch them doing something right, you reward the good behavior, behavior changes faster than when you take punitive measures. aren't you concerned we'll see that with mexico?...

States is. the penalties are harder on the chinese and the long-term benefits to farmers and everyone else by keeping our technological advantage and keeping china, making china live by the laws that the rest of the world has to with respect to intellectual property, it is well worth the short-term fame. -- pain. the farmers who are hurting understand that. >> let's end on this. karen, what would make a better fix at the border? >> well, i think actually we need to go back to a policy we had that was starting to work which is a program of aid to those countries. i heard you talking about it ea...

You're not going to get that here. what is the political plus-minus? >> i think it hurts democrats if they try to go into impeachment -- think about it, the election is in the next 17 months. it's going to take that long to get the first subpoena served, i think, on their current schedule. i mean, i do think that they -- if they wanted to do this the -- in their terms, the correct way, they could continue down the investigative path, have public hearings, try to make the case, and if it rose to the level where people on both sides of the aisle said, hey, this is an impeachable offense, we've g...

That changed the numbers. you're not going to get that here. what is the political plus-minus? >> i think it hurts democrats if they try to go into impeachment -- think about it, the election is in the next 17 months. it's going to take that long to get the first subpoena served, i think, on their current schedule. i mean, i do think that they -- if they wanted to do this the -- in their terms, the correct way, they could continue down the investigative path, have public hearings, try to make the case, and if it rose to the level where people on both sides of the aisle said, hey, this is an im...