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Fat man was the bomb we dropped on nagasaki. fat man killed more than 170,000 instantly and tens of thousands more people in the years that followed. unlike little boy, which was a uranium bomb, fat man was a plutonium bomb, and the plutonium came from here, the hanford nuclear facility. it was designed to produce nuclear material:it had nine nuclear reactors and created a practically endless supply of plutonium for the enormous nuclear arsenal. while that material created the most famous nuclear weapons in human history, one of the only two nuclear weapons anyone knows the nicknames for, all ...

Be terrorism list. you wanted to engage them, hope you could bring them into some kind of rationale. >> no. rationality and north korea should never be in the same sentence. >> bill: all right. >> what i wanted was to get inspectors on the ground. north koreans to begin to dismantle nuclear capability for plutonium bomb. i know more on the ground. >> bill: disagreement that happens. >> it's a substantive disagreement. these things happen all the time. not personal substantive. >> bill: it was personal in cheney's book and rumsfeld book. he talked down to you. said you were academic. you wanted...

Be terrorism list. you wanted to engage them, hope you could bring them into some kind of rationale. >> no. rationality and north korea should never be in the same sentence. >> bill: all right. >> what i wanted was to get inspectors on the ground. north koreans to begin to dismantle nuclear capability for plutonium bomb. i know more on the ground. >> bill: disagreement that happens. >> it's a substantive disagreement. these things happen all the time. not personal substantive. >> bill: it was personal in cheney's book and rumsfeld book. he talked down to you. said you were academic. you wanted...

Be terrorism list. you wanted to engage them, hope you could bring them into some kind of rationale. >> no. rationality and north korea should never be in the same sentence. >> bill: all right. >> what i wanted was to get inspectors on the ground. north koreans to begin to dismantle nuclear capability for plutonium bomb. i know more on the ground. >> bill: disagreement that happens. >> it's a substantive disagreement. these things happen all the time. not personal substantive. >> bill: it was personal in cheney's book and rumsfeld book. he talked down to you. said you were academic. you wanted...

Was going? >> i don't know. >> bill: he never told you? >> once you started down that rude would begin to unravel the entire operation. we still had some of these people that we needed for intelligence value. but my point to him and the president ultimately agreed is that we had done nothing to be ashamed of. >> bill: so he didn't want any exposition of what the u.s.a. was doing at all. >> that's my recollection, yes, right. >> bill: all right. now, he is a hard guy, cheney. is he a tough guy. all right? and he wanted north korea to be one, a terrorism list. you wanted to engage them. the hope...