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And mueller could find himself under investigation? >> i think we have to look at the comments by the president yesterday, ali, where he talks about what a joke the american justice system is, he degrades the justice department. it's an assault on the rule of law. at the end of the day, robert mueller is someone who has served this country in uniform, combat marine in vietnam, his integrity has been unquestioned throughout his long public career. this is a deliberate, pretty meditated smear campaign to lay the predicate for the president to order the firing of the special counsel should the in...

Conservatives to go along with it that it could get derailed and mueller could find himself under investigation? >> i think we have to look at the comments by the president yesterday, ali, where he talks about what a joke the american justice system is, he degrades the justice department. it's an assault on the rule of law. at the end of the day, robert mueller is someone who has served this country in uniform, combat marine in vietnam, his integrity has been unquestioned throughout his long public career. this is a deliberate, pretty meditated smear campaign to lay the predicate for the presi...

They were definitely not advisor level, trump tower type inner circle figures. that is one thing people are consistent about during the campaign, but i think the idea of them being the coffee boy, we're starting to find out information that says it was, tfrs more than that. >> joyce, what do you make of the strategy then where mueller has started at the top with manafort and at the bottom possibly with papadopoulos, what do you make of his strategy and where it leads? >> so one of the hallmarks of a good prosecutor is that you don't delay a case when it's ready to indict. and i think that's wh...

I would go back to joyce's point about mueller sending this message. he is sending this message before his folks have met with jared kushner, with hope hicks, with the real inner circle. >> the message is if you're lying, possibly about anything, i'll come after you. >> he is basically saying i know, so you can tell me the truth and we can work together or you can be obstructionists and, you know, look what manafort is facing. i don't know if that's exactly what the message is, but it -- clearly he's playing "hardball" with paul manafort and he's sent that message before -- they've talked to r...

Level, trump tower type inner circle figures. that is one thing people are consistent about during the campaign, but i think the idea of them being the coffee boy, we're starting to find out information that says it was, tfrs more than that. >> joyce, what do you make of the strategy then where mueller has started at the top with manafort and at the bottom possibly with papadopoulos, what do you make of his strategy and where it leads? >> so one of the hallmarks of a good prosecutor is that you don't delay a case when it's ready to indict. and i think that's what we're seeing here. the manafor...