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You want to have this thing turned over to the republicans, the party with no idea, no thoughts, no coherent messages of their own, go ahead. martha: i want to squeeze in one mini topic and it goes to the topic bob was -- point bob was making, the president has gone off koch industries, and i want to play this sound bite by the president and get your thoughts on it and who's behind it. >> right now, all around this country, there are groups with harmless sounding names like americans for prosperity, who are running millions of dollars of ads against democratic candidates, all across the countr...

Bob, your reaction, then andrea's reaction, is this a start way -- smart way for the president to go? >> the person behind this is david koch, the largest private employer in the cup, big into oil, this guy has been against the climate control people, everything progressive democrats have stood for, i'm glad he's being drawn out and he ought to have guts to put his -- his name on it as opposed to a committee. >> nobody understand what is this means, for a president to comment on t. el-- really t. elevates this group, this is something a president should not be commenting on and i think it show...

Martha: i think howard dean is saying he feels like he's left his principles that he was elected on. this touches on the same thing, bob, it goes back to the team at the white house, are they fail to go help him communicate a message resonating with americans and do you think they should make changes in the west wing? >> first off, i don't think the message is clear because there are so many different things to be done. when andrea says about what's been accomplished here, i mean, you've got everything from equal pay to women to getting the economy back on track. >> getting the economy back on...

Apparently this mine doesn't use it. of course the deeper you are underground, the more costly it is to drill the holes. but having those holes there really improves the ventilation. so that's an option that operators consider all the time. >> bob ferriter with the colorado school of mines, a health and safety specialist. bob, thanks for your insights tonight. before we go to break, i want to foe to the magic wall and illustrate the point bob was making. here's a layout of the mine here. where the circle is, this is where the explosion took place. you can see the miners have been recovered. th...