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>> melissa: i think from a legal perspective, we wouldn't know. these are the argument that you guys are having from a legal perspective, maybe people wouldn't have done what they did and maybe we would know about it. >> harris: that's what i'm asking. the bottom line. the drumbeat that you'll see on some media outlets as well, this is all about president trump writing to fire mueller. so what i'm asking is, can you shut that down or can you enlighten it? what does this do? does it do one thing or the other? >> howard: remember, mueller is not involved in any of these pretty came and we find o...

In his numerous encounters violated the cardinal rules of source handling maintaining confidentiality. he was at that point terminated. senior official of the doj, and then that's when in september 2016, steele admitted to ohr his feelings against and then canada trump when steele said he was desperate that trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president. he had already been fired for doing things he wasn't allowed to do it at that point, he told back to bruce ohr and passed more information in and all of this was known and the information was used to obtain fisa warrant...

>> melissa: the point is that they lied to a fisa court in order to spy on people. that's horrifying. you don't have to go any further than that. >> harris: that's not partisan partisan. >> melissa: it says that they knew the dossier was fake and they used it. >> jessica: it doesn't say that they lied. >> melissa: they used it to get the warrant and they knew it was fake. how is that not lying? if i know a documents fake and i use it to get a warrant, how is that not lying? >> lisa: he was also told three separate times he wasn't under investigation and it wasn't until he fire james comey whic...

Around here, but it's a bigger picture that we are seeing here. >> howard: he was a republican, a republican official. >> lisa: i don't care. if there's been plenty that hate president trump as well. you made the point earlier that everyone involved that has gotten in trouble with team trump so far has nothing to do with russia collusion. you made the point earlier that the original. >> jessica: mike flynn has nothing to do with russian collusion. >> lisa: would his conversation with the russian ambassador ever have been a big deal if we hadn't been talking about russia? >> jessica: he lied to...

Not yet at least. >> harris: can i ask you because now we are all the way through this, we are at point five, and talking about george papadopoulos, the former trump campaign advisor. one of the people who has pleaded guilty to some charges here in the investigation not having anything to do with collusion or coordination between the trump campaign and the russia officials, the russian officials as are alleged. but i'm curious to the point that you see mentioning this, talking about peter strzok, what does this go in this section of the memo? >> this section of the memo based on my experience ...