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Story in a day, and that would not be fake news if it were a global pandemic of the sort that the world was struck by at the end of the first world war. i don't entirely agree with steve in the sense that sometimes there really is bad news and history doesn't necessarily prepare you for it. >> steve, let me pick up on the point niall was making in. 1911 this was auch is a book written "the great illusion" in which it was said essentially war will never happen again. >> he did not say that. >> he said that he thought it would be so expensive that it wouldn't pay -- >> he was right. >> it was re...

And we are back with steven pinker and niall ferguson talking about the world, is it falling to pieces or better than ever? niall, let me ask you to give us a sense of where you think the world is going because you and i have had this debate while i was taking steve pinker's side in toronto and i recall some of the points you were making, which i thought were quite valid which was if you look at the world from the point of view of the state of democracy, there seems to be a retreat both in important countries and smaller countries. if you look at the support for kind of international order, wh...