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If both of them say that, do they neutralize each other? what happens? >> that's what's so remarkable about this debate. we're looking through some post modern looking glass. there's a democratic operative i know who uses the word post truth politics to describe this dynamic which i think is quite apt. democrats shouldn't fool themselves nooz thinking and i just saw on the internet before i came into the studio they're now talking about, okay, we're going to get rid of the $50 billion fund. in this environment of post truth environments, policy concessions will not affect the politics. you'll ...

A big question is a question within the democratic caucus in both houses, especially the senate, in the wake of health care passing on a highly partisan vote, are democrats better off trying to score a bipart san achievement with reregulation? there's a number of democrats who say, no, they want to move this bill that's currently passed both houses. they want to move it to the left. they're looking for a fight. they're telling essentially challenging republicans, bring it on. if you want to side with wall street, we're going to side with consumers. they would like to succeed on policy grounds ...

Support this? republicans are being critical of democrats for ramming this through or attempting to ram this through, but president obama today was saying republicans have used that move in the past to ram through their legislation. >> i think it is disanalogous in at least one important way and parliamentarians will have to deal with some of the reconciliation language. yes, reconciliation has been used, not for something that is both this big and this much opposed by the american people. that really -- >> oh, i disagree. >> politically, there's real question as to whether they are better ser...

Politically and procedurally this so-called simple up or down vote is really very complicated. as one democratic source put it to me earthquake the president's new pressure helps, but it doesn't guarantee health care will happen. dana bash, cnn, capitol hill. no guarantee at all let's talk strategy again with david gergen, bill bent and donna brazile. can can he get enough democrats to support this? republicans are being critical of democrats for ramming this through or attempting to ram this through, but president obama today was saying republicans have used that move in the past to ram throu...

In the past to ram through their legislation. >> i think it is disanalogous in one important way and parliamentarians will have to deal with some of the reconciliation language. yes, reconciliation has been used, not for something that is both this big and this much opposed by the american people. that really -- >> oh, i disagree. >> politically, there's real j question as to whether they are better served by having this fail or pass. i think if it passes it is probably worse for them politically. now, i'm opposed to it on policy grounds but i think democrats, be careful what you wish for, you...