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I cannot get a lot of republicans to come on this show, but i have had a few in the last few days, including congressman scott ridgel of virginia, former congressman steve latourette who i just spoke with, thoughtful, reasonable republicans who actually don't want the government to be shut down. but what they keep saying to me is, well, the way we should end this is by negotiating on some policy points. and then the shutdown can end. or then we can avoid the debt ceiling. is that actually what this is now boiling down to, whether there should be a policy negotiation before the gun is taken awa...

Conversation about substantive policy negotiation saying we're not going to give them citizenship, we're going to give them work permits. but ross as someone who represents -- >> represents? i object represent myself and my family and every conservative. where do you want me to start? >> first of all -- the basic framework. >> let's start with the basic framework, yes, it's certainly true that there -- because there are sort of deep passionate disagreements about issues in american life that there is a limit to what you can achieve by making substantive concessions to the opposition, but let's...