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Tola's have no interest in normalizing with israel. they have no interest in pulling back from issues in syria and support for terrorist groups. they're very split themselves and not like the situation that we have in washington. >> timely ifinally i want to get you to react to president obama's. he said we're in gosh darn free fall here. he did not use gosh darn when referring to the middle east policy. do you agree? >> i think frankly there's so much different stuff going on and it's going to be a new poll policy and the real difficulty is explain to it people. overall, i think that there's ...

What it ends up t with. you start to try solving that with more subsidies. it's not a a healthy way to solve that problem. not a flexible smart way to solve that problem. conservatives have a different method where you can take things to the states where even in states like poll policy which i may differ with you on can become experiment mental democracy. people keep voting for every bigger federal government have you none of those p opportunities and you lose the opportunity to help people. >> bill: governmental i just want to say to you and to mary catherine that you can't say to these peopl...

Guys are very good at them. they are not the gifted bill clinton kind. so what -- you tell me whether when we listen to these two guys wednesday night it will be how they convince us who has a better poll policy or it will be a moment like avoiding a tbaf, or like al gore seeing. >> we have a greater history of negative things happening in debates that change the trajectory of races. so don't screw up. that's rule number one. but rule number two, if you are mitt romney when you go into this debate you need to change the trajectory of this. you can't do it by being a human fact checker. but wha...

Will be. two top vote getters will move on to a general election. there's a lot of weird scenarios that come up when you've got lots of candidates on the same ballot. you can someone with 17%, 18%, being the next congress person. >> jane harman a force for cent trifts democratic policies. you lose another centrist democrat as part of the caucus. >> absolutely. >> as well as someone who has been a strong voice on foreign poll policy. >> the centrists, jane harman of the blue dogs. this is a group that was literally almost decimated by the 2010 election, so many blue dog democrats lost in the so...