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Tries to turn the public attention away from the russian interference into elections of 2016 in the united states. >> you say "alleged." do you feel that in russia people think there was no russian information campaign, information war in 2016? because, you know, most -- it's not just the united states, most western intelligence agencies believe it happened. most independent observers believe it happened. >> well, you know, i think that there is the official narrative in moscow. we never interfered, we never do -- we will never do. but there is a footnote to that. and in small print, you can r...

Over in the united kingdom? what do you make of the parallel? >> i don't think anyone has ever used the phrase britain trump before. and also the polls and protests that we've seen in the uk suggest donald trump is not so popular as he's claiming there. but certainly i think there are two kindred political spirits here. both donald trump and boris johnson are creatures of the post-truth, post-shame celebrity era of politics. there are a lot of parallels. they both have a habit of making stuff up. that was certainly true of johnson in his days as a journalist, who was fired for making up some q...

You have a job is the other, it's china, it's migrants, i'm going to protect you from the other and deliver jobs and economic growth. and his base still believes that. this is not -- the other issue here is donald trump is the result of failed institutions. it's a result of both parties, the media, establishment businesses. not delivering to average americans after the financial crisis of 2008 and those portions haven't gone away. >> people are not meant to live in isolation, they're meant to live in a community. >> most of us do. >> that's right. even the killer, the jewish synagogue, lived i...

Setting the tone. >> i'm old enough to remember a time if somebody said something that was false and was confronted by a reporter like you about that, there would be embarrassment, there would be apologies. there might even be resignations. are we just in a world where it doesn't matter? >> the post-truth world. what's interesting is you're right. there was a time -- and there still is a time actually, it just doesn't apply to this president necessarily, but when confronted with either an outright falsehood or misleading statement or a little bit of spin, a politician would adjust their rhetor...

Retired four-star general michael hayden, who ran both the nsa and cia. and we started by asking him about his new book, the assault on intelligence, american national security in the age of lies. >> i come at it with a three-layered problem. number one is cultural. and fun mentally that's the biggest one. it's us. the book is about us and our political discourse or lack of discourse, our distrust. that's anchored also on the lack of truth. post-truth world oxford definition, decision making based on feeling and preference rather than objective reality and we've gone to our corners, pledged al...