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But we can raise the costs if it comes to that, and we're working on that too, to provide defensive weapons to ukraine where they can make it long and painful of russia tries to occupy further portions of ukraine. so we're doing what we can. i've been skeptical of putin's intentions all along. i think he feels that his last invasion of ukraine did not have its intended effect. it really drove ukraine more into the west. he may feel now he's just got to militarily take over the whole country to prevent it from growing closer to the united states or the west. >> in terms of potential leverage pu...

Grand. i don't know what that has to do with the guy who just popped up on your screen, michael cohen. i don't know how that is relevant to anything. >> right. there's a lot that we don't know. we are trying to put together sleds of information about what we special counsel is looking at. i think it is worth emphasizing again there may be more potential leverage that the special counsel has against michael cohen that he uses to get at whatever else he might know. that's how they can work and the same way they are putting the squeeze on paul manafort. >> just to state the obvious, we are trying...

Operation. like the e-mails that casey was talking about and that erin was just talking about to russia trying to find out if a stalled negotiation over a trump tower in moscow could be advanced. you might look at that as financial leverage for russia. the other big bucket is this policy question of trying to work out a deal with some ukrainian politicians whereby sanctions on russia might be lifted in exchange for things. i think the larger thing here is that they're looking at all these points of potential leverage with trump and whether there's more than is in the public record. now michael...