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Carol, we appreciate you being here and your nuance. and asserting collusion is not a crime, he read aloud from the u.s. code the actual statutes that would be broken if there was collusion with russia and election interference certainly adds to the public record, senator. i want to start with your view of what donald trump wrote on the internet today is evidence of potential obstruction. >> it's certainly evidence, ari, of his state of mind, how he views the ongoing mueller investigation and what he thinks should happen. he's saying this morning jeff sessions should shut down the mueller in...

>> well, you said it was a mosaic of sorts. i wonder whether it's a self-portrait titled "evidence of obstruction," given how drastically blatant it was. carol, we always appreciating your reporting and nuance. thank you so much. >> i turn to senator chris coons on the senate judiciary committee and rebutting giuliani's assertion that have collusion is not a crime. he re he -- i want to start with your view of whether what donald trump wrote on the internet today is evidence of potential obstruction. >> well, it's certainly evidence of his state of mind how he views the ongoing mueller investi...

Happened --. it's not even the main trial mueller will be handling. there's a separate d.c. trial where the stakes are much higher. this is happening as all of these revelations are coming up during trial. there's certainly something there that he is issuing this order to the department of justice, which has control, oversight over other prosecutors, and certainly strength in the case from obstruction. >> i want you both to stay with me as promised. i'm bringing in richard painer, he is now running as a democrat for the u.s. senate in minnesota. i go to you, sir, on this central question, does...

The two men hardly speak and they barely interact when they are in the same room together for immigration or something related to the justice department and things have really changed, but what is new here is that we know that the special counsel robert mueller is looking into that meeting that the president had with jeff sessions and into the president's attacks on jeff sessions and his efforts to get him to step down from being the attorney general, something clearly jeff sessions has not responded to because he's still in charge at the doj, but it does show that the special counsel robert m...

Report that congress is going to use to decide what, if anything to do there is a political aspect to this, that when it's all said and done, the only thing is, quote/unquote, potential obstruction, a lot of which occurred through the president's twitter fingers that the american public and the republicans are going to say well, we kind of already knew that. there is nothing on collusion. let's move on. which again seems to cut against two separate reports because it may allow republicans at a brute level to say, well, one has nothing. russia doesn't touch trump. maybe other people. and the ot...