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The investigation stands, how much power mueller has right now? >> well, mueller's leverage is clearly pretty immense at this point. and he's now been able to get a key player in this whole story to cooperate with him. and manafort's internet two respects. first he was at the nexus of this effort by pro-russian interests to lobby the u.s. government. and second and the part we don't know about at this point is he was at the top of the campaign during critical months for donald trump before he was president. mueller's been able to turn him. i think it's a slow process. but you see how effective...

Terrible news for the president and the people he surrounds himself with. >> what does this tell you about the power mueller has now? is it fair to say that mueller essentially owns manafort at this point? >> i think legally speaking, he's certainly got the upper hand. paul manafort is going to surrender at least $46 million in cash, a couple of very valuable properties in new york city. of course, his freedom is at stake. at the end of all of this, then and only then does a note go to the judge suggesting that he take into account, he or she, take into account whatever cooperation was given b...

In moderate in light, and we're going to see if the sort of bravado part of rudy is going to be sufficient to offset the gigantic title wave of evidence and power mueller is bringing to the table as well. >> that was a short answer rick, thank you. do you think he's going to be much affected by joguiliani? >> no, i don't. he loves loyalty, he loves celebrity. he gets both of those in rudy guiliani. and his self-debasement continues. >> i think it's a recognition by trump and his team that he has more of a political problem than a legal problem. the legal problem is going to sort itself out. th...