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Institutions and the people who got us here. that's number one. number two, the kinds of words and phrases we're hearing from mr. giuliani are not the words of a substantive serious lawyer. they're some kind of desperate pr spin he's hoping people will latch on to. throwing out something like they can't indict because there's policy against it, he wants people to actually believe that. and actually believe that mueller won't challenge policy if he believes he can prosecute the president. >> mike barnicle, what has happened to rudy giuliani? >> who knows? well first of all, one thing clearly ha...

Much squashes it. and then to say that trump should be notified, that's absolutely contrary to all law. in fact -- i think michael avenatti said this earlier. it is a law itself to -- it is a violation of law itself to disclose the existence of a wiretap. so this is pr spin from someone who i admire greatly as the u.s. attorney from the office i served in. but is just off on this one. >> let me go over to you, kelly o'donnell at the white house. again, if they're on schedule this afternoon, we're about 20 minutes away from hearing from sarah sanders. >> the briefing was originally set at 2:00 ...

We'll start there. what do you think of this? >> it's pr spin but it's that. i think folks need to understand that this was business as usual as far as facebook developers went. i'm a facebook friendly. i have a long relationship with them. so when i did this project, we didn't think we were doing anything wrong. we didn't think facebook was going to be upset. and i was doing it for money. there are companies collecting vastly more data that don't care about their relationship with facebook and facebook has no accounting for that data whatsoever. so trying to say alex is an outlier is stunning...

Petersburg state university, kind of a link to the russian government. basically, he does research, and it was provided to cambridge analytica. he's basically saying that, you know, i actually am not the person who is in trouble here. this has to do with facebook policy. here's what he had to say to savannah guthrie earlier this morning. >> at the time, we didn't think we were doing anything wrong. it was the normal business as usual practice. i think right now, absolutely, it is viewed as wrong. now that we know how people feel about it. >> facebook called you a fraud and liar. they painted y...

Testimony before lawmakers on capitol hill just a couple weeks ago. the developer he's referring to is alexander cogen. he developed an app that harvested data of tens of millions of facebook users. this he's referring tos is alex kogan. he dependent an app that harvested tens of millions of facebook users, but this morning kogan is firing back saying he's not the only twoun blame in this fight. >> pretty powerful pr spin but it's exactly that. i think our folks need to understand that this was business as usual as far as facebook developers went. i'm a summary. i had a long relationship with ...