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Michael zeldin mentioned before, mueller's team has briefed all of these constitutional questions. they know exactly every nuance, they're supreme court clerks, they're scholars, they're prosecutors. they will win. so ultimately the president is going to lose, even, i think, on the law. >> i think the legal route, fighting this legally, does help the president, because it just takes it into a place where the public goes. there is some kind of thing going on. had there been some evidence out there that showed real collusion where the president was implicated, that would be bad. because we don't...

Before the break we heard the new reporting from evan perez and pamela brown that the president's legal team is preparing for a legal shutdown with special counsel robert mueller. bracing for a legal fight that could go all the way to the supreme court. this is a dumb question, but the president doesn't actually have to be served with a subpoena, correct, asha? >> we were just talking about that. i just want to say this legal showdown that may be coming is both -- it could be a smart thing to do or a really, really, really dumb thing to do. it's smart in the sense that you don't have the facts...

Because he doesn't stay on top of it. >> he's attacking mueller in the investigation every day, to no avail, by the way. in the abc poll a few weeks ago, 69% of americans said they had confidence of mueller looking into the collusion issue, 54% into the noncollusion business issue. that's he's attacking rosen, he's attacking the fbi. he knows that. >> we keep making this mistake and it gets back to my big theme in gas lighting america. we think donald trump needs to fight on facts because we're used to that, it's logical, it's what he's supposed to do. no, he does not fight on fact. he develop...

Then all the way to the supreme court. look, i think it's something the supreme court has previously said, presidents can be subpoenaed, but the circumstances here are a lot different from some of those previous cases. >> evan, thank you very much. we go to jeff zeleny at the white house. there was press briefings where the thought of a subpoena has come up many times. what exactly is the public stance the white house has taken on this? >> reporter: the public stance was that the white house today was actually being more disciplined than i've seen any time i can remember. they were referring a...

Collusion, they believe there is an entirely different reality happening that he has created. until we fully understand how that process works, we're going to keep making the mistake of saying, what does he say in the deposition? >> is robert mueller the one person he can't gaslight? >> it becomes a defensive move. donald trump is very effective at a defensive measure when he's creating his own narrative. gaslighting doesn't work when you're not in complete control. that's why everybody has to understand he's his best master manipulator. he creates chaos constantly as a way of taking control o...