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As long as you can show that he was trying to do a run around the process, you can show a violation of this statute. for example, asking raffensperger to find 7000 votes, he may have generally believed that he somehow turned them, some of the stolen, but he knew that process wasn't the way you do it. the secretary of state can just declare, i'm just going to give you an extra 11,000 that you need. that i think could be a really good statute because if a jury does not find that the government has proved that donald trump knew he had lost the election, they can still win under the statute. >> i ...

Justice department investigation? >> you know, i guess those are two different things. the legality versus whether there should be some oversight. the president has broad powers when it comes to granting pardons, but most white houses use for the reasons mike identified, the process that involves the doj's pardon attorneys. having evaluated pardon questions, it's an exhaustive review, it might include talking to prosecutors and defense lawyers. it can include talking with judges who tried cases and getting information on a prisoner's record if they were incarcerated for a period of time. there...

>> it is us but it's you. it's the next generation. the one after that. my grandchildren and their children. they will determine whether the experiment still works, and of course, i'm an optimist and i am pretty sure it will. >> leading off our discussion tonight is melissa murray. professor of law at new york university, she served as a law clerk for judge sonia meyer on the d.c. court of appeal. she is an msnbc contributor. also with us, michelle roger goodwin, chancellor professor at law at the university of -- she has submitted briefs to the united states supreme court. and i would like to...

"wall street journal" and juan williams fox news analyst. what do you make of the moves and putin's situation right now. >> i think john kirby sums it up right in military terms. no doubt putin has made this enormous build-up on the border. what's unclear me if is if he decides not do this it this how does he climb down offer this perch and save face. we don't know what he has been assured of privately. perhaps he has been assured that ukraine would not join nato. but that wasn't going to happen any time soon if ever anyway. it's hard for me to picture that as being great win for him that he w...

President clinton, this would be like we wouldn't be able to talk about anything else around here. >> bret: senator, we are covering it extensively. we are going to ask a democrat about it after the break. this is what they say why are republicans seemingly not as alarmed about president trump's handling of documents compared to worries about hillary clinton's emails? both former national security adviser sandy berger. former cia director john deutsch slapped with criminal penalties for mishandling national security documents. we know there are 15 boxes down in mar-a-lago. there is allegations...