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That. >> well, and cohen has already admitted, he's already made admissions against interest that he did this on his own. >> right. >> he did this to protect the president. he did this without the president's knowledge so, again, i'm not sure -- i don't think you're on the "new york times" washington bureau stormy desk but didn't you remember that is the case? cohen's already admitted this. >> well, he has but it is different to hear the president say it. the question, of course, is, it's not under oath, it's not with the precision a lawyer would try to nail down a more precise version of even...

Had any knowledge of the payment of $130,000 -- >> it's helpful. >> that causes a problem for michael cohen because it was then a contribution to president trump that michael cohen made. >> but i'm saying didn't we already know that, though? >> we did know that. but the president himself hasn't said anything so what avenatti is saying here is basically the non-disclosure agreement that the president was supposed to be a party to for it to be valid can't be valid because the president says he doesn't know anything about it. >> but, again -- >> that's the only reason this i think is -- >> my onl...