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Definitely coming back and that would be a step so dramatic and bring us into a much closer possibility of u.s.-russian direct military conflict. we would have a proxy conflict in ukraine, but we haven't seen anything like that in decades so that would be the exclamation point that our history is returned. >> steve clemens, ann gearen, thanks to both of you. we are awaiting for the news conference to begin in geneva, secretary of state kerry and john ashton will get a sense of where the talks have gone and if they're making headway we will keep you poefrted. meantime, there is a harrowing an...

We want to head out to the white house. jim, what do you know so far? >> so far all we can tell is you that the press secretary said about an hour ago during the press briefing. that call was going to occur during ta time period. we believe the two presidents had spoken. i had a chance to ask about this comment that the president made earlier this week. he is not involved in an international chess game with vladimir putin over the ukraine. he said that is not the case and it's not a tug of war and it's not a proxy conflict about the rights of the people to protest peacefully. we will find out ...

It was clear from the beginning in afghanistan, in iraq, that these were potential violent sectarian civil wars, on top of which you had stakeholders in the region willing to engage in proxy conflict. we knew that syria would be a rubik's cube problem. and those senators this week continue to advocate for simple binary responses in a cauldron of horrible problems that just defy simple explanation. i think that the way kim described it, and the early warnings on what would happen, because i do disagree with kim on one aspect of this. i don't know what lebanon can withstand, but jordan, lebanon,...

Vladimir putin in meetings tomorrow. and that's going to be a potential game-changer. but it's unlikely, according to most of the arab sources i have, that putin is going to do anything different. >> you're absolutely right. you can almost draw a straight line from the paralysis of the international community to what is happening on the ground. the fact that both russia and china have consistently blocked measures at the united nations for stronger international measures against the syrian president for perhaps even intervention through international organizations like nato in syria. the fact ...

Region if the international community doesn't work together. listen. >> we will likely be getting in a situation where syria is experiencing sectarian civil war that could spill beyond its borders and destabilize the region and could involve other countries in the kind of proxy conflict that can be damaging not just to the region but to the world. >>jonathan: there is no doubt on that. the proxy conflict is playing out in this verbal cold war style battle between the united states and russia. >>shepard: proxy is the key here. pulitzer prize winning journalist, judith miller is with us, an adju...