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Basically look for ways to train women to do this pull up better. i talked to a former marine officer that said at one point she could do five and the first one was the hardest because she had never done it before. when girls are in gym class in school, they don't have to do pull ups. when young women start working out, many of them, quite hard pull ups are not really in that mix. they are not trying to build those big pectoral and upper body muscles, so pull ups aren't in the mix. i think what the marines are going to do now is dive in and figure outweighs to teach women how to do pull ups to...

Three pullups. >> if what captain armor is saying is true, it's a training issue, captain jacob, you've been doing training and worked in that field. do you think women can change up the training and be up there with men? >> i served in the marines for ten years, four years enlisted and six years officer so i went through boot camp and the officer course and i was a company commander to an integrated training unit where half of them were women. you train your marine as a team and you train as you fight. i required my females in the unit to do the same types of exercises the males did, which in...

>> generally i'm not for lowering standards. >> she is a form he marine corp officer who commanded troops in afghanistan. >> i was at one point able to do five but it was that first one that took me the longest to get to. >> she said women have to learn how to do pull-ups. something many have never done. >> experiment with different techniques. you figure out what other exercises to do. >> critics say the big push over pull-ups is part of a bigger problem. pressure from the white house to make the military gender neutral. >> something is wrong here and it is not the women's fault. it is the po...

Drop off the bar. >> joining me now for a fair and balanced debate, gunnery sergeant jesse jane duff, she served 20 years in the marine corps and an army veteran of the iraq and afghanistan wars who founded concerned veterans for america. they do not see eye to eye on this issue. jesse, you say the test is unfair. why? a lot of people think -- i'm not one of them -- three pull-ups? should be able to do it. >> i have a problem is what makes it unfair is the marine corps set an abstract standard without research. when you have a year passing and not any -- 50% of the females graduating from recr...

>> some people say women aren't raised to work on upper body strength like men are. there may be a delay as women realize what they need to do in order to hold come bat roles. >> exactly. women have 20% less upper body strength. that's a reality. i'm not going to say women cannot do three pull-ups. i have a problem that when you set the goal and you don't have the proper training in place. you're having recruits go the to boot camp who are not receiving the training you need to look at yourself hard in the mirror. what are you doing? these are females going on active duty. they should go throu...